Gate of Madness with H/H - Page 2 - Guild Wars Forums

Xenomortis · Feb 14, 2011, 03:22 PM // 15:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by TaeZ246

You know xenomortis, she mentioned originally "somewhere I should pin h/h or something?" (in other words flag) so yes she has no problem with flagging she does have problems with micromanaging the skill bars. Seriously I am the same way and if you think that I should learn to micro or i shouldn't bother with getting help, that's just ignorant.

There's a difference in moving your H/H ball back a bit and spreading them all out.
I didn't home in on that particularly, but on this line in the OP:
"I'm so not into micro managing so if that is necessary I will hang it up right now."

That just demonstrates an unwillingness to improve and I consider separating your heroes out as micromanagement.

TaeZ246 · Feb 14, 2011, 03:34 PM // 15:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

There's a difference in moving your H/H ball back a bit and spreading them all out.
I didn't home in on that particularly, but on this line in the OP:
"I'm so not into micro managing so if that is necessary I will hang it up right now."

That just demonstrates an unwillingness to improve and I consider separating your heroes out as micromanagement.

Ok but I am also not interested in micro managing. It doesn't mean I don't want to be better it just means when I get on to play I'm interested in relaxing and not having to focus on every tiny detail and control multiple skill bars. I still want to do and get many things in the game but that doesn't mean I NEED to learn to micro. And if something does require microing well sorry I'm not that dedicated to this game. Keyword: game

Silmar Alech · Feb 14, 2011, 04:27 PM // 16:27

It's not necessary to micromanage heroes to the extend that you control their skill usage. Usually, you only need to control their positions with the flag - the 3 flags for your heroes and the 4th flag for the henchmen. By spreading them out a bit before combat, you avoid that they all are hit by AoE damage.

I do only minimal skill micromanaging with my heroes. Usually, I disable all resurrection skills at my heroes and activate them on demand. It depends on the situation, if I resurrect someone during combat or after combat. All other skills are free to use by the heroes. Only on rare occasions I do micro other skills. If I need a certain skill in a certain situation RIGHT NOW, but the hero is doing something else - then I click it.

But don't bother with this. On your first journeys through the game, you are absorbed with the action around you and usually don't have the awareness of what your heroes should do at the moment.

Chthon · Feb 14, 2011, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Take note that Iuris's mini-walkthrough assumes you pushed forward after the shiroken ambush. If you circled back, then you enter the room by the margonite portal instead.

And let's try to avoid calls for butt-kissing, OK? You may not like what Xeno has to say, but you should probably listen to him because he's usually right.

Stormy Fae · Feb 14, 2011, 07:05 PM // 19:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Take note that Iuris's mini-walkthrough assumes you pushed forward after the shiroken ambush. If you circled back, then you enter the room by the margonite portal instead.

And let's try to avoid calls for butt-kissing, OK? You may not like what Xeno has to say, but you should probably listen to him because he's usually right.

Thanks for the advice but I really don't need his. It's just a game and if it's not longer fun then I will quit playing. I do not need to subject myself to pompous rude behavior. I have received many tips here and other places from other more congenial players. I am ignoring Xeno.

majoho · Feb 14, 2011, 08:50 PM // 20:50

It is indeed the hardest mission in all of GW (not counting EotN) but it should still be easily doable h/h in normal mode.

You are not the first person posting here about that specific mission, I recall a while ago someone else did and I ended up helping him do the mission.

I don't really play GW at this point but feel free to PM me if you want help doing the mission.

Lasai · Feb 14, 2011, 08:56 PM // 20:56

the discussion page on the Wiki has better info about H/H this mission than the walk through does. Read that.

Oh, and don't mess about using hero monks unless you have a very specific need and skill for a situation. the NF Hench monks will do just fine, allowing you to use a better set of heros. I have never seen the need to use 2 hero monks solo, at most I will use one heavy prot/hex removal hero. And I am Eternal Guardian/vanquisher/ of Elona.. done all H/H and mostly with hench monks.

I don't micro.. but I do keep Xandra's bar up to set spirit "ambushes" to pull things onto.. and flag my group behind them as I pull.

I do firmly believe that mucking about and trying to pull the Lich is not necessary, Shiro comes running and can be taken down fast with a decent SoS/displacement/shadowsong rit hero and punishment hexes (mes or Necro). You can have Shiro done by the time the Lich strolls up to your group.

Also, if having trouble a conset is cheap, use it. Same with morale boosters, take off any DP on your group with combs or canes prior to engaging the tougher parts. It is what they are there for, a Hench or Hero with 60dp is nearly ineffective. Same with summon stones, if you have em, use em at the crucial spots.

You can also make good use of a Resto/hybrid rit hero.

majoho · Feb 14, 2011, 08:58 PM // 20:58

Personally I always found that the titans at the start was the hardest part of it, the rest is just careful pulling.

Xenomortis · Feb 14, 2011, 09:06 PM // 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by majoho

It is indeed the hardest mission in all of GW (not counting EotN) but it should still be easily doable h/h in normal mode.

Eternal Grove in HM beats Gate of Madness in HM (whilst H/Hing) by a long way.
Not sure for NM.

Lasai · Feb 14, 2011, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Eternal Grove in HM beats Gate of Madness in HM (whilst H/Hing) by a long way.
Not sure for NM.

Gate of Madness is the toughest fight, for me, but Eternal Grove is, like a lot of factions missions, tougher mechanically to get masters. I have no probs beating Eternal Grove.. but masters in HM with h/h is a crapshoot.

Stormy Fae · Feb 15, 2011, 01:51 AM // 01:51

Whew, I'm glad that's over. It took about 5 tries with varying h/h (and once I messed up and went the wrong way and got wiped by Curator Kali!) but finally managed it. If anyone's interested I took heroes: healer, mm and smite monk. Hench: healer, motivation, holy, domination.

Not as bad as I thought. I didn't even have to do all the fancy stuff with separating heroes and such. Simply took one portal and pinned near there and pulled groups to them. I forget my bow so I had to pull using my staff, but I'm used to that. It just takes patience and good timing. Once I got past the portals I was scared to death of Shiro after reading about his Battle Scars and Impossible Odds, but he wasn't that bad. I messed up and aggroed them both and pulled them through the door. But the lich went down fast and then Shiro just took a couple minutes of pounding on him.

Maybe I'll come back for the bonus after Factions & EoTN if I get bored (and good) enough.

Thanks everyone for your help!

Voodoo Rage · Feb 15, 2011, 02:17 AM // 02:17

BTW, for me this mish is actually easier if you get the bonus (Shiro is always the problem for me). I usually just kill the Lich first and ignore Shiro and then just run around and cap the shrines. Shiro is pretty harmless unless you get his health down (so if I have spirits I will temporarily disable them).

firelink · Feb 15, 2011, 04:01 AM // 04:01

I actually did this easily.

I was a Paragon. I was not an imba, so my build was generally useless. Something I made up.

I brought a monk, a warrior, and a Necro. My buddy was a derv with a random build, he brought the same thing.

My monk was WoH/Prot. His monk was just basic things. My warrior was just some thrown-together axe build with Wild Blow, his was the same. The necro is what wins it though. Put Spiteful Spirit or Spoil Victor on the Necro, along with Insidious Parasite. The whole thing is a breeze until you get to Shiro/Lich, where it gets tricky.

If you try and pull, you can actually pull the Lich away from Shiro slowly but effectively. You might even get lucky and catch him in an infinite tug-o-war, where he runs towards you, goes too far, runs back, runs toward you again, etc. etc. This makes the Lich really easy, even though he kinda already is.

After him, flag your warriors up close, the monks as far back as you can but within range of the warriors, and the Necros wherever. You can stand wherever too. Stop your warrior hero from using any attack but wild blow, and stop your necros from using anything but IP/SS. Aggro Shiro, sit back and watch him kill himself.

Stormy Fae · Feb 15, 2011, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Wow, they weren't kidding that Madness was the last hard mish of NF! I finished off Abaddon on the 2nd go and got master's. I think overall the hardest was Ruins of Morah. It took me forever to find the sweet spot in that one.

Well, on to Factions. (I know wrong order but hey I'm a rebel!)

**cosyfiep** · Feb 15, 2011, 04:14 AM // 04:14

glad it worked out for you (actually I found Dzagonur Bastion and Jennur Hoard to be hard to do with only h/h so I usually skip them

)...and yeah abbadon is a push over after this mission.
Only mission in factions I had problems with doing h/h was eternal grove, did it but didnt get masters....usually force my hubby to do it with me.

firelink · Feb 15, 2011, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by cosyfiep

glad it worked out for you (actually I found Dzagonur Bastion and Jennur Hoard to be hard to do with only h/h so I usually skip them

)...and yeah abbadon is a push over after this mission.
Only mission in factions I had problems with doing h/h was eternal grove, did it but didnt get masters....usually force my hubby to do it with me.

Really?

I did it really easily.

I ran myself (Para), WoH monk, MM, and an ele. Brought along another healer henchie, warrior and ele.

I flagged my heroes on one side, the henchies on the other. I freelanced back and forth between both places and helped out as necessary. Was actually one of the easiest missions in the game.

Stormy Fae · Feb 15, 2011, 04:31 AM // 04:31

Oh yeah, I guess I could go back and do the ones I didn't do. I chose Margrid so I didn't do Dzagonur bastion and I chose the other one over Jennur's horde. I did try Jennur's a couple times but it seemed pretty hard. Maybe I'll go get those. Will it add to the value of my book if I fill in those?

Ling · Feb 15, 2011, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stormy Fae

Oh yeah, I guess I could go back and do the ones I didn't do. I chose Margrid so I didn't do Dzagonur bastion and I chose the other one over Jennur's horde. I did try Jennur's a couple times but it seemed pretty hard. Maybe I'll go get those. Will it add to the value of my book if I fill in those?

It will, the more spots filled, the better the reward

A11Eur0 · Feb 16, 2011, 06:47 AM // 06:47

Shiro should be killed first. The lich hits hard but attacks slow and moves slow. This allows you plenty of time to flag and move to the next portal, cap it, then move behind the statue blocking the lich's ranged attacks. Drop spirits before moving to the next shrine and he'll chill at them until they die if you keep running. I'll never kill the lich first again.

Here's what I do with H/H, hard or normal mode, with or without razah:

heal and prot monk heroes. Empathy/panic mesmer. SS/insidious/price of failure necro. Spirit rit. Fall Back! on me. Two more non-melee heroes...they'll attack the lich on occasion while capping but they don't do enough damage to kill him in the short periods you'll be fighting him.

Spirits: SoS, bloodsong, pain, and shelter. disable shelter. After killing shiro, micro the shelter with the lich in aggro of the already-present spirits. Run past the lich flagging your H/H and use fall back!. the spirits will die before killing the lich, and you'll be well out of the lich's range, allowing you to cap at least three shrines before he gets back to the center. If you aggro him again, no big deal...after you kill the margos at the shrines, flag everything behind the statue, put your attack heroes on avoid combat, cap the shrine. drop spirits behind the statue, run past again. The lich should stay there for the rest of the bonus capping period. When all 5 are capped, go kill him.

Stormy Fae · Feb 16, 2011, 05:51 PM // 17:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by A11Eur0

Shiro should be killed first. The lich hits hard but attacks slow and moves slow. This allows you plenty of time to flag and move to the next portal, cap it, then move behind the statue blocking the lich's ranged attacks. Drop spirits before moving to the next shrine and he'll chill at them until they die if you keep running. I'll never kill the lich first again.

Here's what I do with H/H, hard or normal mode, with or without razah:

heal and prot monk heroes. Empathy/panic mesmer. SS/insidious/price of failure necro. Spirit rit. Fall Back! on me. Two more non-melee heroes...they'll attack the lich on occasion while capping but they don't do enough damage to kill him in the short periods you'll be fighting him.

Spirits: SoS, bloodsong, pain, and shelter. disable shelter. After killing shiro, micro the shelter with the lich in aggro of the already-present spirits. Run past the lich flagging your H/H and use fall back!. the spirits will die before killing the lich, and you'll be well out of the lich's range, allowing you to cap at least three shrines before he gets back to the center. If you aggro him again, no big deal...after you kill the margos at the shrines, flag everything behind the statue, put your attack heroes on avoid combat, cap the shrine. drop spirits behind the statue, run past again. The lich should stay there for the rest of the bonus capping period. When all 5 are capped, go kill him.

Wow, that sounds really involved. But as I mentioned I haven't done Factions yet so i don't have SoS. But I will keep this in mind if after Factions I decide to come back and do the bonus. Thanks!

Feb 14, 2011, 08:56 PM // 20:56	#27
Lasai Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Apr 2009 Profession: R/	the discussion page on the Wiki has better info about H/H this mission than the walk through does. Read that. Oh, and don't mess about using hero monks unless you have a very specific need and skill for a situation. the NF Hench monks will do just fine, allowing you to use a better set of heros. I have never seen the need to use 2 hero monks solo, at most I will use one heavy prot/hex removal hero. And I am Eternal Guardian/vanquisher/ of Elona.. done all H/H and mostly with hench monks. I don't micro.. but I do keep Xandra's bar up to set spirit "ambushes" to pull things onto.. and flag my group behind them as I pull. I do firmly believe that mucking about and trying to pull the Lich is not necessary, Shiro comes running and can be taken down fast with a decent SoS/displacement/shadowsong rit hero and punishment hexes (mes or Necro). You can have Shiro done by the time the Lich strolls up to your group. Also, if having trouble a conset is cheap, use it. Same with morale boosters, take off any DP on your group with combs or canes prior to engaging the tougher parts. It is what they are there for, a Hench or Hero with 60dp is nearly ineffective. Same with summon stones, if you have em, use em at the crucial spots. You can also make good use of a Resto/hybrid rit hero. Last edited by Lasai; Feb 14, 2011 at 09:29 PM // 21:29..

Feb 15, 2011, 04:14 AM // 04:14	#35
cosyfiep are we there yet? Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: in a land far far away Guild: guild? I am supposed to have a guild? Profession: Rt/	glad it worked out for you (actually I found Dzagonur Bastion and Jennur Hoard to be hard to do with only h/h so I usually skip them )...and yeah abbadon is a push over after this mission. Only mission in factions I had problems with doing h/h was eternal grove, did it but didnt get masters....usually force my hubby to do it with me. __________________ where is the 'all you can eat' cookie bar?

Feb 16, 2011, 06:47 AM // 06:47	#39
A11Eur0 Furnace Stoker Join Date: Apr 2005 Profession: W/	Shiro should be killed first. The lich hits hard but attacks slow and moves slow. This allows you plenty of time to flag and move to the next portal, cap it, then move behind the statue blocking the lich's ranged attacks. Drop spirits before moving to the next shrine and he'll chill at them until they die if you keep running. I'll never kill the lich first again. Here's what I do with H/H, hard or normal mode, with or without razah: heal and prot monk heroes. Empathy/panic mesmer. SS/insidious/price of failure necro. Spirit rit. Fall Back! on me. Two more non-melee heroes...they'll attack the lich on occasion while capping but they don't do enough damage to kill him in the short periods you'll be fighting him. Spirits: SoS, bloodsong, pain, and shelter. disable shelter. After killing shiro, micro the shelter with the lich in aggro of the already-present spirits. Run past the lich flagging your H/H and use fall back!. the spirits will die before killing the lich, and you'll be well out of the lich's range, allowing you to cap at least three shrines before he gets back to the center. If you aggro him again, no big deal...after you kill the margos at the shrines, flag everything behind the statue, put your attack heroes on avoid combat, cap the shrine. drop spirits behind the statue, run past again. The lich should stay there for the rest of the bonus capping period. When all 5 are capped, go kill him. Last edited by A11Eur0; Feb 16, 2011 at 06:59 AM // 06:59..

Feb 14, 2011, 04:27 PM // 16:27	#23
Silmar Alech Lion's Arch Merchant Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Europe Guild: Tom Son [TS] Profession: E/	It's not necessary to micromanage heroes to the extend that you control their skill usage. Usually, you only need to control their positions with the flag - the 3 flags for your heroes and the 4th flag for the henchmen. By spreading them out a bit before combat, you avoid that they all are hit by AoE damage. I do only minimal skill micromanaging with my heroes. Usually, I disable all resurrection skills at my heroes and activate them on demand. It depends on the situation, if I resurrect someone during combat or after combat. All other skills are free to use by the heroes. Only on rare occasions I do micro other skills. If I need a certain skill in a certain situation RIGHT NOW, but the hero is doing something else - then I click it. But don't bother with this. On your first journeys through the game, you are absorbed with the action around you and usually don't have the awareness of what your heroes should do at the moment.

Feb 14, 2011, 06:36 PM // 18:36	#24
Chthon Grotto Attendant Join Date: Apr 2007	Take note that Iuris's mini-walkthrough assumes you pushed forward after the shiroken ambush. If you circled back, then you enter the room by the margonite portal instead. And let's try to avoid calls for butt-kissing, OK? You may not like what Xeno has to say, but you should probably listen to him because he's usually right.

Feb 14, 2011, 08:50 PM // 20:50	#26
majoho Forge Runner Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Denmark	It is indeed the hardest mission in all of GW (not counting EotN) but it should still be easily doable h/h in normal mode. You are not the first person posting here about that specific mission, I recall a while ago someone else did and I ended up helping him do the mission. I don't really play GW at this point but feel free to PM me if you want help doing the mission.

Feb 14, 2011, 08:58 PM // 20:58	#28
majoho Forge Runner Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Denmark	Personally I always found that the titans at the start was the hardest part of it, the rest is just careful pulling.

Feb 15, 2011, 01:51 AM // 01:51	#31
Stormy Fae Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2011 Profession: E/Me	Whew, I'm glad that's over. It took about 5 tries with varying h/h (and once I messed up and went the wrong way and got wiped by Curator Kali!) but finally managed it. If anyone's interested I took heroes: healer, mm and smite monk. Hench: healer, motivation, holy, domination. Not as bad as I thought. I didn't even have to do all the fancy stuff with separating heroes and such. Simply took one portal and pinned near there and pulled groups to them. I forget my bow so I had to pull using my staff, but I'm used to that. It just takes patience and good timing. Once I got past the portals I was scared to death of Shiro after reading about his Battle Scars and Impossible Odds, but he wasn't that bad. I messed up and aggroed them both and pulled them through the door. But the lich went down fast and then Shiro just took a couple minutes of pounding on him. Maybe I'll come back for the bonus after Factions & EoTN if I get bored (and good) enough. Thanks everyone for your help!

Feb 15, 2011, 02:17 AM // 02:17	#32
Voodoo Rage Desert Nomad Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Sacramento, CA Guild: Geezers Profession: R/	BTW, for me this mish is actually easier if you get the bonus (Shiro is always the problem for me). I usually just kill the Lich first and ignore Shiro and then just run around and cap the shrines. Shiro is pretty harmless unless you get his health down (so if I have spirits I will temporarily disable them).

Feb 15, 2011, 04:01 AM // 04:01	#33
firelink Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Jan 2011 Profession: P/W	I actually did this easily. I was a Paragon. I was not an imba, so my build was generally useless. Something I made up. I brought a monk, a warrior, and a Necro. My buddy was a derv with a random build, he brought the same thing. My monk was WoH/Prot. His monk was just basic things. My warrior was just some thrown-together axe build with Wild Blow, his was the same. The necro is what wins it though. Put Spiteful Spirit or Spoil Victor on the Necro, along with Insidious Parasite. The whole thing is a breeze until you get to Shiro/Lich, where it gets tricky. If you try and pull, you can actually pull the Lich away from Shiro slowly but effectively. You might even get lucky and catch him in an infinite tug-o-war, where he runs towards you, goes too far, runs back, runs toward you again, etc. etc. This makes the Lich really easy, even though he kinda already is. After him, flag your warriors up close, the monks as far back as you can but within range of the warriors, and the Necros wherever. You can stand wherever too. Stop your warrior hero from using any attack but wild blow, and stop your necros from using anything but IP/SS. Aggro Shiro, sit back and watch him kill himself.

Feb 15, 2011, 04:03 AM // 04:03	#34
Stormy Fae Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2011 Profession: E/Me	Wow, they weren't kidding that Madness was the last hard mish of NF! I finished off Abaddon on the 2nd go and got master's. I think overall the hardest was Ruins of Morah. It took me forever to find the sweet spot in that one. Well, on to Factions. (I know wrong order but hey I'm a rebel!)

Feb 15, 2011, 04:31 AM // 04:31	#37
Stormy Fae Ascalonian Squire Join Date: Feb 2011 Profession: E/Me	Oh yeah, I guess I could go back and do the ones I didn't do. I chose Margrid so I didn't do Dzagonur bastion and I chose the other one over Jennur's horde. I did try Jennur's a couple times but it seemed pretty hard. Maybe I'll go get those. Will it add to the value of my book if I fill in those?